Season 2 Episode 01 - The Beauty of Floundering

Welcome to Season 2 of the Go Deeper Podcast! In the season opener co-hosts Cindy Bischoff & Kim Forman share how beneficial floundering can be, if you'll just allow it to. They'll catch you up on the past six months in their lives, and how wallowing in apathy & floundering aimlessly allowed them to return to season two with renewed passion.

Episode 25 - Judgey McJudgerson

In this episode, Cindy Bischoff & Kim Forman explore judgement. This episode came about as request/question from one of our listeners.

Danielle writes...

"I was pondering topics that I would love to hear y'all talk about and I realized that one thing I really struggle with is negative judgement. I catch myself judging others and myself in a negative way, especially when others or myself are expressing themselves purely. I learned to be really judgmental in elementary school. I learned that you were either a popular kid, beautiful, ugly, nerdy or any other negative or positive category. A lot of people have this experience growing up and I realized recently that this judgmental voice still follows me to this day. I notice the negative thought immediately and tend to shift my judgement, but it always sneaks in. It tends to happen when I'm observing others being themselves and I place a judgement on them for acting a certain way. I feel a block around letting my creativity and true self flow in situations because I tend to worry about being good enough. I fake it pretty well most of the time, but I still feel held down by critical judgement, always in the background. I'm sure this has to do with how our brain is wired to survive and how our society has programmed us. Cindy seems to be really good with the biological aspects of the ego (psychology, etc.) and Kim has great insights on how to break through our perceptions so I figured this would be a perfect topic for you ladies. Anyway, love the show and I'm so proud of you!!! Thanks!"


Episode 24 - The Curse of Perfectionism

Perfectionism - Self Portrait - Photographer Roni Rosen/Flickr

Perfectionism - Self Portrait - Photographer Roni Rosen/Flickr

In this episode, Cindy Bischoff & Kim Forman discuss the curse of perfectionism, and the difference between striving for excellence and driving yourself crazy seeking flawlessness.

Episode 23 - The Learning Curve

Photographer Kim Forman

Photographer Kim Forman

In this episode, Cindy Bischoff & Kim Forman explore The Learning Curve.

Basic concepts and poses of Shiva Nata:

Intro to poi spinning:

"The harder things are to grasp or memorize, the more our brains rise to the challenge." -Ian Leslie from the book "Curious". (He goes on to say that we actually absorb knowledge much more deeply when we struggle to obtain it.)

Episode 22 - Is Your Mind a Weapon or a Tool?

Photo credit:

Photo credit:

In this episode, Cindy Bischoff and Kim Forman discuss the human mind, and how it can be used as either a weapon, or a tool. Cindy dissects her understanding of the conscious mind, subconscious mind and ego, and shares her understanding on how to make them work together instead of waging war between our hearts and minds. The share the works of Carl Jung, Sigmund Freud, Elizabeth Gilbert and Brene Brown.


Episode 21 - Redefining Selfishness

Elizabeth Gilbert was the catalyst for this episode. She shared on social media her frustration with the exhausting accusations of selfishness she has been subjected to, for no other reason than following her passion.

Stevie Nicks made a public statement that she chose not to have children in order to throw herself wholeheartedly into her art, because she knew in her heart that if she tried to do both, they would each suffer the consequences of the other.

Candace Pert - molecules of emotion (the quote about neurotransmitters/docking stations/emotions. I wasn't sure if you were paraphrasing or if that was a direct quote.)

Brenè Brown was called selfish for taking an important business trip, leaving a small child at home with her husband.

Cheryl Strayd - My children were blessing with a mother who chases her dreams like a motherfucker!

"Selfishness is not living is one which is to live, it is asking others to live as one wishes to live." - Oscar Wilde

"If you can see the path laid out before you, it's not your path." ~Joseph Campbell

Tanya Geisler - Tall Poppies, Comparison Compulsion and Worship Wisely

Celebrating 1,000 Downloads!!!

Holy smokes, Diggers, we did it!!! We hit the 1,000 download milestone!!! WAHOOOOO!!!!!!

We just wanted to take a moment to celebrate this amazing milestone with y'all. Thank you for your love and support. We cannot tell you how much we appreciate you letting us into your lives, and helping us to grow as artists, podcasters and business women.

Thank you, thank you, THANK YOU!!! <3 <3 <3

Next milestone: 2,500. Onward...

Episode 20 - Radical Self-Acceptance

Welcome to this week's episode of the Go Deeper Podcast. What if you decided to love yourself as you are, in this moment? In this episode Cindy Bischoff & Kim Forman discuss Radical Self-Acceptance. They share Kris Carr's Super Soul Session on "How to Live A Crazy Sexy Life" and how it caused Cindy to look at herself through new eyes.

In the video below, Kris Carr talks about being "a pile of steaming hot messness" before being diagnosed with stage 4 terminal cancer in 2003. She shares her transition from the hot mess into a woman who learned to, not just live with cancer, but to thrive. She went from a place of wanting to get rid of cancer, to accepting it.

Cindy talks openly about her uncomfortable reaction to watching this video, and how she realized that she still had work to do. 

Cindy & Kim share their experiences of finding self-acceptance, and give some insight on where to start...

Oprah Winfrey, Roslyn Carter, Thich Nhat Hanh, Nathaniel Brand, Paul McKenna, Tony Robbins

Kris Carr Super Soul Session - How to Live a Crazy Sexy Life

"To be beautiful means to be yourself. You don't need to be accepted by others. You need to accept yourself." ~Thich Nhat Hanh

"Self-acceptance is my refusal to be in an adversarial relationship with myself." ~Nathaniel Branden

"Once you accept the fact that you are not perfect, then you develop some confidence." ~Roslyn Carter


I Can Make You Thin - Paul McKenna

Episode 19 - In Defense of the Dark Arts

Photographer Kim Forman

Photographer Kim Forman

Originally aired May 25, 2016

In an environment of negaphobia, where people shun anything perceived as "negative" or uncomfortable, dark art is often unfairly criticized for its ability to disturb. In this episode, Cindy Bischoff & Kim Forman defend dark art, and explore the value it give to our culture, and society, as a whole.

If we (as artists) owe *anything* to society, it's honesty.

Is it possible that there is a correlation between decreased access in our schools to the arts and recess and the increasing violence of society?

Becoming obsessed with creating dark art because we know it will get a reaction is every bit as emotionally dishonest as creating joyful art when we are not feeling joy.

There is a difference between acknowledging or speaking our pain and choosing to wallow in it.

If you cannot be agony, you will never experience ecstasy.


"Shame needs three things to grow exponentially in our lives: secrecy, silence, and judgment." ~Brenè Brown

" we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same." ~Marianne Williamson

Dark Art discussed:

Edvard Munch "The Scream"

Edvard Munch "The Scream"

La Vie, Pablo Picasso (Blue Period)

La Vie, Pablo Picasso (Blue Period)

Wheat Field With Crows, Vincent Van Gogh

Wheat Field With Crows, Vincent Van Gogh

Starry Night, Vincent Van Gogh

Starry Night, Vincent Van Gogh

The Night Watch, Rembrandt van Rijn

The Night Watch, Rembrandt van Rijn


Billie Holiday

Pink Floyd

Hank Williams, Sr.

Leonard Cohen

Patsy Cline

Episode 18 - Find Your Purpose

Originally aired May 18, 2016

In this episode, Cindy Bischoff & Kim Forman discuss how we lose our sense of purpose, at what cost to humanity, and how to reconnect with it again. They discuss the work of Brene Brown, Elizabeth Gilbert, Tony Robbins, Albert Einstein, Michael Landon, T.S. Eliot, Herman Melville, John Milton, and Thomas Troward.

"Somebody should tell us, right at the start of our lives, that we are dying. Then we might live life to the limit every minute of every day. Do it, I say! Whatever you want to do, do it now! There are only so many tomorrows." ~Michael Landon, Jr.

Episode 17 - The Crap Bucket

Originally aired May 12, 2016

In this episode Cindy Bischoff and Kim Forman discuss how detrimental it is to build oneself up by tearing another down. They share their moments of eye-opening of harsh judgementalism and self-marginalization. They also discuss finding their true beauty by empowering and building other people up.

Ask yourself, what is the pay-off you get by tearing somebody else down?

Kim shares her analogies of the crab bucket, and the crap bucket...

Episode 14 - The Fountain of Youth

Image by John Fowler on Flickr

Image by John Fowler on Flickr

Originally aired April 21, 2014

In this episode Cindy Bischoff & Kim Forman explore the Fountain of Youth.

  • They take a look at what history and myth say about it.
  • Discuss the horrific things people do to themselves and to others in their quest for eternal youth.
  • Then Cindy reveals where/what she thinks the fountain of youth REALLY is!!

Episode 13 - The Beauty of Deep Friendship

Originally aired April 14, 2016

In this episode, Cindy Bischoff & Kim Forman discuss the beauty of deep friendship. It's a place to give. Unconditional relationships are a beautiful place to give. While everyone is worthy of friendship, not everyone is worthy of YOUR friendship. They share the work of Sally Hogshead, and Brene Brown.

Episode 11 - Creative Triage

Originally aired March 31, 2016

In this episode, Cindy Bischoff & Kim Forman discuss what it is to be creative, how to find your "why", priming the creative pump, creative scars, playing with the muse, choosing your own pain, finding the gift in the darkness, and making failure your bitch. They discuss the works of Elizabeth Gilbert, Brene Brown, Brooke Shaden, Thomas Troward, Martha Beck, Sue Bryce, and Julia Cameron.

When I paint, I liberate monsters... They are the manifestations of all the doubts, searches and groping for meaning and expression which all artists experience... One does not choose the content, one submits to it. (Pierre Alechinsky)

If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end in doubts, but if he will be content to begin with doubts, he shall end in certainties. (Sir Francis Bacon)

The only virtue on which I pride myself is my self-doubt; when a writer loses her self-doubt, the time has come to lay aside her pen. (Sidonie Gabrielle Colette)

Lacking an external focus, the mind turns inward on itself and creates problems to solve, even if the problems are undefined or unimportant. If you find a focus, an ambitious goal that seems impossible and forces you to grow, these doubts disappear. (Timothy Ferriss)

There is no learning without having to pose a question. And a question requires doubt. (Richard Feynman)

What still concerns me the most is: am I on the right track, am I making progress, am I making mistakes in art? (Paul Gauguin

Doubt is a pain too lonely to know that faith is his twin brother. (Kahlil Gibran)

Every work of art has its necessity; find out your very own. Ask yourself if you would do it if nobody would ever see it, if you would never be compensated for it, if nobody ever wanted it. If you come to a clear 'yes' in spite of it, then go ahead and don't doubt it anymore. (Ernst Haas)

Creativity requires introspection, self-examination, and a willingness to take risks. Because of this, artists are perhaps more susceptible to self-doubt and despair than those who do not court the creative muses. (Eric Maisel

Do I doubt the painting I've just painted because it is not right or because I can never like what I do? (Eric Maisel)

Your goals minus your doubts equals your reality. (Ralph Marston)

To my mind, faith is like being in the sun. When you are in the sun, can you avoid creating a shadow? ...You can't. This shadow is doubt. (Yann Martel)

Doubt is the beginning not the end of wisdom. (English proverb)

Our best built certainties are but sand-houses and subject to damage from any wind of doubt that blows. (Mark Twain)

The torch of doubt and chaos is what the sage steers by. (Chuang Tzu)

Focus more on your desire than on your doubt, and the dream will take care of itself... Your doubts are not as powerful as your desires, unless you make them so. (Marcia Wieder)

Will Smith has said, “I still doubt myself every single day. What people believe is my self-confidence is actually my reaction to fear.”

I don't believe anyone ever suspects how completely unsure I am of my work and myself and what tortures of self-doubting the doubt of others has always given me. ~Tennessee Williams

Our doubts are traitors, and make us lose the we oft might win, by fearing to attempt. ~William Shakespeare, Measure for Measure

The worst enemy to creativity is self-doubt. ~Sylvia Plath, The Unabridged Journals of Sylvia Plath

If you hear a voice within you say you cannot paint, then by all means paint and that voice will be silenced. ~Vincent Van Gogh

Let your fear drive you to evolve into greatness. ~A.J. DarkholmeI am drowning in negativism, self-hate, doubt, madness - and even I am not strong enough to deny the routine, the rote, to simplify. No, I go plodding on, afraid that the blank hell in back of my eyes will break through, spewing forth like a dark pestilence; afraid that the disease which eats away the pith of my body with merciless impersonality will break forth in obvious sores and warts, screaming, "Traitor, sinner, imposter." ~Sylvia Plath, The Unabridged Journals of Sylvia Plath

The greater the artist, the greater the doubt. Perfect confidence is granted to the less talented as a consolation prize. ~Robert Hughes, [Modernism's Patriarch (Time Magazine, June 10, 1996)]

I no longer tell myself, “I’ll never be a good enough artist.” Instead, I ask myself, “What can I do to become better?” And I take baby steps. ~Melissa Ng

How to Believe in Yourself in the Face of Overwhelming Self-Doubt

The fear and doubt in the creative process never goes away for professionals, rather they come up with concrete strategies to deal with it. ~Clara lieu- profession artist, professor

If we are ever in doubt about what to do, it is a good rule to ask ourselves what we shall wish on the morrow that we had done. (John Lubbock)